How to keep tourists out of the country
Posted by Don Packett under Uncategorized on July 8 2006 at 2:24 PMHoox posted about this website, Crime Expo SA, and I couldn’t agree more.
Have a look, let me know what you think. I think anything that keeps, or tries to keep tourists out of your own country is wrong.
July 8th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Shout loud people!!! People like this are worse than criminals they are the ones making sure we never heal!!
July 8th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
[...] Write a “How to” post. (How to keep tourists out of your country) [...]
July 8th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
I’m collecting comments about what people REALLY think. The Crime Expo SA web site is a farce. Neil Watson, the owner of the site is not publishing any comments which are against his views. He is also using pictures from rotten.com, claiming them to be pictures of victims of SA crimes. View my blog for more info: southafricamoving.blogpost.com
July 8th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
“Please take the world soccer cup away from South Africa”
WTF!!!!! AND the retards don’t even know what the tournament is called!!! Idiots!
July 9th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
I’m not sure what this guy is up to… Anything that creates awareness about crime in SA is good and if it pisses off politicians then that is great. Maybe they’ll get their arses into gear and sort out crime in SA. I don’t agree with this guy’s methods, but ultimately you have to agree with his vision – A crime free South Africa.
July 9th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
Ok. A crime-free South Africa, and free food and lodging, and free beer on tap wherever you go, and money for nothing, and and and…
You’ll never get a crime-free ANYWHERE! Fact. But don’t be a silly fool and use that as a reason to keep foreigners away, then every single country in the world should have a cloned copy of this website.
July 9th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
I agree that keeping tourists away will not help in any way… My point was just that this guy is upset about crime and he’s doing his bit about it. He may be misguided and his methods not quite kosher but he is doing something.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:50 pm
Please don’t give this person credit for actually doing anything remotely constructive. He is not offering or inviting suggestions for tackling crime; he is not collating credible, reliable statistics on crime; he is merely spreading fear, loathing, and sensationalism, in the hope of forcing foreign visitors to stay away. His poorly-designed, barely literate “website” is nothing but a platform for bile, hatred, sick “humour” and thinly-disguised racism. The only good thing about it, is that it will not in the slightest have an effect on tourism to South Africa, or on our preparations for what will undoubtedly be the greatest World Cup in the history of the game.
July 10th, 2006 at 9:05 am
Ja, i have to agree. this is not “doing something” this is in fact propogating hate speech and fear, which does nothing constructive about crime at all!
July 10th, 2006 at 9:58 am
I thinks its great.
I think the world and especially tourists need to know the extent of crime in this country. As awesome as SA is, its not all roses and butterflies.
Crime is hectic and out of control, and people have the right to know. and i think it will make even south africans more aware of the seriousnous and frequency of violent crimes. Im all for it.
July 10th, 2006 at 10:06 am
“the greatest World Cup in the history of the game” ??? Are you f*king insane or just totally blind to the reality that is South Africa. We live in a society that accepts crime as a way of life which is absolutely redicuous. The government and by association, the media does not publish the harsh reality of what happens in this country on a daily basis. South Africans of all races need to react and respond to what is going on, take your blinkers off and stop pretending things are ok – they are far from it. Things need to change drasitcally in this country before we can even pull off a remotely succesful World Cup. If it takes one stupid website to make a few people sit up and pay attention then I say go for it…
July 10th, 2006 at 10:24 am
joller and The Chiz – Too right.
stev. – Bigger picture my friend. We’re already aware of crime. Do you lock your doors at night? Lock your car whenever you leave it, even at home? Are surprised when your car’s still in the parking when you leave the store? You’re aware of crime, but, SO IS THE REST OF THE WORLD! If you go touring and think that your holiday destination is crime-free, you’re dreaming. Every place has crime. Like I said before, if you think it’s so good, then every country should have a site just like it.
WTF – The site has pushed a few buttons because it’s deliberately canning SA as a destination, whether for a holiday or WC2010. You obviously don’t read many news sites, because they definitely do tell the truth about what’s happening in the country. Don’t believe me?
News24
Mail & Guardian
IOL
Topix.net
SABC news
or choose from these.
And all these found in a whopping two minutes (on a slow connection.)
July 10th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Perhaps it will take you a bit longer with your slow connection and all, but maybe you could find me the reaports on the other few thousand rapes that occured over the weekend, the hundreds of murders etc, etc.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:09 am
Listen bro, you’re being really silly.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, because I don’t think it’s sinking in. Wherever you go, THERE WILL BE CRIME!
Go find all those reports, and while you’re at it, go find the reports on all the other hundreds or thousands of crimes that have occurred over the past few minutes all over the world.
Mr High and Mighty WTF, too scared to say who you are, yet you want to be a credible spokesman for dissing your own country and try make people believe in what you believe to be right? Give me a break. SA isn’t rosy, but neither is any other place.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Top marks to everyone who has made a comment and is prepared to be heard and not hide (WTF??). I for one will support Neil Watson 110% (and have told him so) for having the balls to do something about the crime as long as he changes his underhand tactics and gets the country rallied around the truth instead of spreading misinformation and trying to destroy his country. He is quoted as saying “don’t be blind” but Neil, really, come on, Wake UP!! To quote a a famous blog (ummm Jo’Blog), “There are none so blind as those who do not see”. Neil, try look a little further than your anger and ego, try to see the potential damage you could cause. I hope you become last weeks news only because the alternative is devastating. I truly hope you (even as an honorary ex-South African) and the rest of the nation never have to reap the rewards of the destruction you are sowing now.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Firstly, Im not your bro. Secondly, why is it that people such as yourself feel the need to personally attack anyone who expresses an opinion different to the one that you feel is correct? Seriously why? Id love to know.
If you cannot argue a point without the personal then stuff off. Try and stick to the topic that we were (relatively) maturely discussing without name calling and immature character assesments.
Why do you feel I need to identify myself? How does that change either of our point of views? I love my country, but I hate what is going on in terms of the out of control crime situation which exists no matter what slant you put on it.
Am I to understand Don, that your point of view is that crime doesnt matter because it happens all over the world?
July 10th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
don – we all know there is crime everywhere.
but crime in sa is really bad. its brutal.
no regard for human life at all. people are getting killed for a cellphone. grannys and children are getting raped on a daily basis. dont be naive- bro SA is bad, i promise you germany is not so bad with crime. they dont lock there doors at night.
look i know crime is everywhere but lets face it, how many brutal , bad , sensless murders and crimes are happening on a daily basis. way way way too much. nothing wrong with awareness
July 10th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
don – WTF is right dont personally attack him coz he shares a different opinion. he is entitled to it. im not dissing this country, i love it, but crimes is way over the top.
He doesnt need to disclose his identity, why? so you can then try and make his name ass, coz u think you are right and being such a patriot, get off your high horse, same thng happened with gs.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
you are not always right
July 10th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
WTF – Let’s not point fingers about attacking someone else’s views, I believe your very first comment is a fine example of that. Let me refresh your memory:
WTF Says:
July 10th, 2006 at 10:06 am
“the greatest World Cup in the history of the game†??? Are you f*king insane or just totally blind to the reality that is South Africa.
I haven’t moved off topic as you say. Topic is crime in SA, don’t ever remember talking about anything else, so you’re wrong again.
Am I saying crime doesn’t matter? Of course not, how you figured that one out is beyond me. I’m saying… Ah fuck it, if you guys don’t get the point by now you never will.
I hear your point, I disagree with it 100%, but I do hear it. There’s different ways of dealing with things like this than throwing warning signs in the faces of potential bring-money-into-the-country people or organisations.
stev. – As said before, we have different opinions, and let’s just look at who got aggressive first, calling people ‘f*king insane’. Cool?
I wouldn’t make his name ass, again, (and I’d appreciate it if you guys would read properly so I don’t have to explain myself over again), if he’s that passionate about something he shouldn’t be afraid to stand up and fight his cause.
But hey, we’re all different. I know stev that you hope the site will make people more aware of crime, that’s great, but to the extent of where it goes, i’m not so sure it’s the correct way of handling things.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
group hug : )
July 10th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Hehe.
July 10th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Yes, too true, I do apologise to Joller for asking if he was f*king insane, I suppose its all semantics really isn’t it Don. “are you…”, you are…”
As for my “passion” regarding this topic… I stumbled across your blog and responded anonymously to a comment, where after my ignorance regarding South African news was generously pointed out by yourself, followed closely by your determination of my silliness and my high and mighty attitude along with my perceived passion to “stand up and fight my cause”… see Don, its amazing that you can sum me up in a few short paragraphs all without knowing my name. Just imagine how much more you could disrespect my point of view and myself if you actually knew my name or any other name that I made up.
Likewise, I too hear what you are saying, and I agree partially with it… but to quote someone who once wrote something profound… “Ah fuck it, if you guys don’t get the point by now you never will.â€
I think that’s the best we are going to do Donny boy. Lets call a truce !
July 10th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
Agree to disagree. Seems only right.
Cool. So who’s up for a religious debate? I’m kidding. Really.
July 10th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Hmmm, took a look at the site. I think the idea is a great idea, BUT, I don’t think it should be a site that is live for the general public or possible ‘tourists’ to read.
We don’t need to be scaring tourists away, that’s for sure. But what we do need to be doing is SOMETHING.
This guy is doing something…whether it be a slight bit on the questioneable side. But I just wish our so-called president would actually read these letters and stories and feel as crap as I did after reading them. Something needs to be done, more noise needs to be made. The leaders of this country need to do SOMETHING…and so do we, the poor plebs of this country.
But let’s be honest here…our country is slowly going down hill and it really doesn’t seem like the crime rate is lowering…I’ll put up as much of a fight for this country as I can, but I (or my family) only need to be victim of crime one more time and I am out of here!
And as for the football – I hope it’s a huge success because if nothing goes wrong, it can open up a lot of doors for this country.
July 10th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
My 2c, for what it’s worth.
I first heard about the website on KFM when Neil Watson was interviewed by one of the DJ’s. I thought he had a point but as I didn’t have an url I couldn’t check out the site.
Now that I have seen the site I can say that if he wants to be taken seriously then he should make sure his site displays correctly on all browsers and that he uses the correct grammar – these two tiny issues have a way of distracting one from the point being made (well they certainly distract me).
Then, as I heard it in the interview, Neil wants to hit goverment where it hurts most, in the pocket.
I think that he is being naive. “Government” won’t suffer if the tourists stop touring, ordinary South Africans will. I mean we should all know by now african governments always manage to come out on top – and there’s Bob across the border to prove my point.
What I want to know is how much of that R3 per sms is going into Neil’s pocket!
I think Neil might well succeed in his aim – to discourage tourists to our shores. But is that going to have the desired effect on South Africa’s crime rate – sadly I don’t think so.
July 10th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
Don, ?I think that you are being a little naive about what frightens tourists away. Generally people can tell the difference between hysterical rantings and factual reporting. If it’s not obvious from the style of the writing, then the poor grammer is a dead give-away… (c:
Being a Seef African that is living abroad, I can tell you about the sorts of things that do give people from abroad pause for thought before deciding to visit sunny SA. To date, the biggest impact amongst the crowd of people I know cam from this Jo’Blog article posted by Rich!…
The number of people in my office that came around asking questions like “In SA, do you really have armed response companies protecting ordinary houses?”. And “These are not famous people being protected, just ordinary people like you and me?”. That frightens the crap out of most of them.
The other thing that puts people off visiting sunny SA is cost. I believe that SA is the most expensive place in the world to refuel your jet plane (I’ve heard that this was to protect SAA). This makes just the flights to and from SA hugely expensive. Then the hotel costs in SA are also huge. People in England are actually chosing to go to Australia instead, because it will be that much cheaper…
Don, you are absolutely right when you say that crime happens everywhere. No doubt about that at all. The difference is that, in places like England, every single murder is extensively reported. The entire coutry is outraged by the things that have happened, and the police only very rarely don’t solve the serious crimes. The criminal justice system kicks into place, and competent prosecutors are assigned serious crimes for convictions. The Prime Minister never releases criminals as an election ploy…
As a final point, the fact that this Crime Expo SA website exists is a great sign for SA, and we should all celebrate it’s existance. It means that SA still hasn’t gone the way of most of the rest of Africa, and that even idiots like this are allowed to publish their opinions…
July 10th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
It’s sad, very sad!
If you got a problem with South Africa leave the country. If you don’t leave, then you should be trying to fix the problem, not scaring more people away!
Idiots!
July 11th, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Please take the World Cup away from us.We don’t even have enough parking at our international airport,not to mention the crime factor.It will be nothing but a huge failure and embarrasment for our country.We might as well hand our tourists over to the criminals on a silver platter to be attacked and murdered.Of course our minister doesn’t think there is a crime problem.He has a few bodyguards to protect his arse so what is he worried about!!! They are not affected by crime like the rest of us and their solution is (IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE CRIME SITUATION THEN LEAVE….VERY INTELLIGENT MR MINISTER.HOW DID YOU GET YOUR JOB???) Where are all these tourists going to stay as we don’t have enough hotels? How are they going to travel around the city?In what…public transport? PLLLEEEAAASSSE!
Do they realise that part of the fun of a tournament like this is not only the matches but also the entertainment afterwards and Europeans are used to being able to walk around the city and celebrate afterwards,maybe have something to eat and do a bit of shopping.How can they do that here in complete safety? You think the police will protect them…they are the ones selling thier own guns to criminals…isn’t that fantastic?
Come on guys,get with it,Anyone who doesn’t see that we should not host the World Cup is an idiot and should have gone over to Germany to see the scale of things we can never match up to.
July 11th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
As much power as I’d hoped I would’ve had by this age, unfortunately I, or the rest of the Jo’blog team, can’t fulfill your request to take the WC2010 away from SA.
Sorry.
July 11th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Sorry but the little fuckass who made that site deserves as little cred and recognition as possible. The BBC and CNN reported on the site – which quite frankly is terrible, has no content, zero truth or fact on it and quite frankly its plain ugleeeeee.
It was an interesting idea but the exdcution has failed so dismally that its an embarresment to the dude.
July 11th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
If you google crime expo you’ll be surprised at the results. Far from a failure. Go Neil Watson.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
I love being in South Africa. Although we do have high crime statistics, there is so much life, energy and passion here that actually outweighs all the bad. Just look at the list of comments on this post alone. What if we all focused that energy towards doing something constructive about the problem instead of bickering and complaining??
July 12th, 2006 at 10:17 am
A more balanced view can be found here:
http://southafricamoving.blogspot.com/
July 12th, 2006 at 11:10 am
I posted the link for the crime exposure website on another forum on 06/07/2006. I raised a query about the pictures that he does have (or rather had) under the various provinces. Well, someone recognised the picture posted under Limpopo and guess what? It was actually taken from rotten.com and is not a picture of a genuine SA crime scene. If it cannot be truthful in such a tiny aspect of fighting crime how can we honestly take anything that website says seriously. And what else he not lying about?
I subsequently went back to the on 07/07/2006 to have a look and it had been removed. No pics there that I could see and the website had also changed . Interesting…. On the 10/07/2006 I went back and saw more pictures and discovered the same thing. One picture is genuine and the others? Clipart taken from other websites.
This website might drive investors from South Africa but what is its real purpose? Yes, violent crime is a reality but how will this disgusting, insensitive, garish, vulgar, cynical and sensationalist display help reduce crime in our country? Will it rehabilitate criminal behavior? Will it convince would be criminals to desist from crime? Will it increase the amount of law enforcement agents? Will it reduce corruption? Will it raise education standards? Will it feed hungry mouths?
If it can do these things or affect these changes, then it will have my support but based on such an untruthful start I doubt it. If Neil Watson finds it so easy to lie by using pics stolen from another website how can we trust anything else he says? Shame on him for lying – he’s no better than those he is trying to show up.
However hard I try I can’t escape the fact that Neil Watson has admitted that neither he nor his family has been a victim of crime. How sincere are his intention then? If he had a true idea of the horror would he have approached this subject so flippantly? Why flippant? If you had a look at the “10 TIPS FOR TOURISTS†that appeared on the right hand side of the page. (You couldn’t miss it – it was right under the block selling now taken advertising space) you see why.
Those are horrible crimes – not a tool to sell a website.
His arrogant and condescending replies and dismissal of his non politician detractors who have taken him to task for his blatantly unpatriotic actions share many similarities with a certain cabinet minister who told the whingers and whiners of SA to “shut up or ship out†(basically). The insurance broker from Camps Bay also would also appear to have a vested interest as he is in an industry which would benefit handsomely from this type of fear mongering. And just exactly how much crime does occur in CAMPS BAY?
Drive investors away from this country and who suffers? The people who would have gained employment from such enterprises as would invest here. The jobless, homeless and the illiterate who’s comfort at night is a zinc plate shack – not a house in Camps Bay. We should also not forget that the people who most suffer from violence and violent acts in South Africa are not those who have raised their voices on Mr. Watson’s site. The victims of crime on the Cape Flats, in the squatter camps and other impoverished and violence struck areas are too busy trying to keep alive to log on to the internet and complain and, in most cases, many of these people do not have access to this technology. So who does this website speak for beside the bourgeoisie (black, coloured or white) who sit behind their fenced-in homes in security complexes?
What about the 8 million people across the globe who die from hunger every year? And those in SA who form almost half our population who don’t have something to eat at night, who only have ONE meal a day? How does this help them? Does it protect them? And does it rectify the other factors which help grow crime? No.
Neil Watson’s website looks more like a way to get HIS point across more than a genuine means to actually help the victims of crime and a way to solve the crime problem in South Africa. He seems more inclined to bury South Africa than actually helping it overcome a very serious problem.
What we need is a website like http://www.chicagocrime.org/ which contains actual data and statistics – enough to make it a genuinely useful tool. It’s also devoid of advertising and browsing through it you will notice the distinct lack of country bashing, discouragement of business or attempts to hurt the country.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
To all of you who are so anti the crime expo website. Please come over to my country and help me in my endeavours to hide the atrocious crimes to humanity that myself and my supporters commit on a daily basis. I have managed to put a stop to those pesky newspaper reports about my so called atrocities, and have put an end to that silly freedom of the press thing. But you guys could do alot more in helping me hide the truth from the outside world. Please come over quick, use the border, dont use the border who cares really… Ill even give you a free farm like I have given my other supporters. Hey – why dont you kill a few people on the way up, I wont tell if you wont, infact with your help no one need ever know.
Thanks guys, your pal Bob.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
I admire the guy for coming up with a brilliant money making idea. What you do is you put up a site full of sensationalist garbage. Then unlike every other site on the web, you DON’T put up a section where visitors can post comments or votes for free. Instead of that you ask them to SMS it in… at R3 an SMS. And then you publish pretty much only the positive ones, even though you make money off the negative ones as well.
Brilliant. I wish I thought of it first.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Please ignore the rantings of Robert Mugabe.
Here’s why:
“…If not treated, syphilis can cause serious effects such as damage to the nervous system, heart, or brain. Untreated syphilis can be fatal…”
July 13th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
I fully support the CrimeExpoSouthAfrica website and so will anybody that has has been remotely affected by the uncontrollable crime in this country, which it seems our Government is not trying hard enough to do anyhting about it. If this website gets the message across, so be it, for it seems that all other methods in the past had absolutely no or verry little effect. It’s frightening to see how the public make all kinds of jokes regarding crime and has come to just Live With It!
At least there is some man enough to take drastic steps to get the message across to the public and hopefully the government as well.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Bart Henderson the President of the South African Institute of Corporate Fraud Management has verified that some of the content, specifically pictures used to highlight violence on the Crime Expo site has been taken from sites that are not genuine South African crime sites (pics taken from rotten.com)
So…when you lie to get the reaction you want it’s ok? As long as the end is one I had in mind it doesn’t matter if I use devious means? I can just say it was meant for good and then my wrong actions are made right?
That sounds just like the people in goverment the Crime Expo website is against.
This is not the war zone Mr. Watson makes it out to be. The picture he paints tells the world that most South Africans are criminals – the last time I checked the non criminals outnumbered the criminals.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:56 am
Well, on the website there is a clip from E-NEWS and obviously that would be truthful…51 murders A DAY, 151 Rapes A DAY, thats really unacceptable and to say every country has crime is true however it’s not as bad as South Africa, maybe to actually understand that it is essential to live in a 1st world country such as Australia. But hey whatever I mean at least the guy is getting people talking if that’s all that comes from it, and I guess we all have the right to our own opinions about this issue.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
I think a lot of the negativity generated about the Anti Crime site is by people who are shocked by the contents of it. As an ex policeman I can assure you that the images and incidents are of the type of REAL events that have been occurring in SA for years. These crimes affect all races except the powers that may be, sitting behind security and bodyguards paid for by us, the taxpayers. Mr. Mbeki is extremely outspoken against gated estates etc, yet he is the most protected man in SA. If SA is safe why doesn’t he lead by example?
It’s about time someone took a stance and spoke about the daily atrocities that can be likened to a war environment. Compare our death rates to Iraq/Afghanistan and try to argue against this!!
As for the world cup, finally there is an incentive that actually forces the government to do something.
As for the R3.00 ?? Small price to pay if the website has repercussions that save even one life.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Is South Africa a dangerous place to visit?
Zola Mkatshane, First Secretary of the South African Embassy in Warsaw, talks with Iwona A. Czerwińska of Warsaw Voice.
Iwona: ”Some people are afraid that South Africa is a dangerous country. Is it true?”
Mkatshane:
”It depends on what you are looking at. South Africa as a developing country does have crime that is socially and economically induced. It is also not a widespread phenomenon and the Government is doing all it can to put it under control. Having said that, I think it is common knowledge that all countries rich or poor are crime ridden including Poland, but of course, some are more dangerous than others and definitely South Africa does not form part of the former group. The best advice for any tourists or foreigners anywhere in the world is to avoid “no-go” areas and stick to the local security advice.”
July 15th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Don…
Yes, there is a level of generalised crime all over the world but you do need to realise that the level of VIOLENT crime in South Africa is the worst in the world. More people die in South Africa every day than in countries classified as being “in a state of war”. Stop being irresponsible Don, get your facts straight before trying to influence others. You could try a little critical reasoning while you’re at it.
Lee
July 17th, 2006 at 7:25 am
Phil
“Compare our death rates to Iraq/Afghanistan and try to argue against this!!”????
What kind of a statement is that? Here’s my arguement: I live/work in Iraq and can assure you there is no comparison. I cant publish numbers but as an ex-policeman, Im guessing that you may have contact with someone who had/has been over here working as PSD and you can get the truth from them (I apologise if my assumtions are incorrect). The numbers here are shocking. Im not about to get into a pissing contest of which country is worse. All Im asking is that you dont compare SA to a country ridden with extremist sactarian violence and ethnic cleansing. You make Watson’s site look like a Tourist Welcome Pack
July 17th, 2006 at 9:10 am
Hoox,
I actually don’t have direct access to the “real” figures in Iraq but based my comparisons on what we as South Africans hear about those countries. As a matter of interest, while living in Iraq, do you have access to the “real” figures in SA? I believe SA’s violence is fueled purely by greed and total disregard for human life, but no matter the reason, a large amount of human life is lost senselessly every day.
You must have a tough time in Iraq and I apologise if the comparison offended you.
At the end of the day, we are both living in troubled countries and I think the more awareness created, the better off we will be.
At the moment th SA government isnt even trying to do something about violent crime, merely trying to hide it as much as possible.
July 17th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
A letter to Mr Watson – from my blog
Mr Watson
I read with alarm that you are launching http://www.crimexposouthafrica.co.za. Your stated aim is to “disillusion and disgust” foreigners. The website will be launched today and is aimed at discouraging foreigners from coming to South Africa because of the crime here.
You have said the website will insist on answers from the world soccer association, Fifa, “Fifa must explain to the international community why the murders of thousands of people were ignored when the 2010 Soccer World Cup was awarded to South Africa.”
You have emphasised that the website will exceed all bounds, “We want to expose what the South African press finds sensitive.”
I understand that you plan to publish hundreds of photos of gruesome murders – photos the press feel are too sensitive to publish.
Apparently you have not yet been affected by crime, but you feel it is inevitable that you will be.
I share your fears. I live in Johannesburg. When I moved here ten years ago, crime was of epidemic proportions. I have witnessed a gradual improvement and like many, felt that the police were winning the war on crime. Many shocking crimes this year have awakened fears that things are getting worse. I like you have escaped being a victim of crime, something I am profoundly grateful for.
I believe that it is foolish to bury one’s head in the sand and pretend crime in South Africa does not exist. I am aware that I live in a society with an abnormally and unacceptably high rate of crime. I believe that our criminal justice system is hopelessly overloaded, inefficient and ineffective. I believe that our country has a culture of ducking accountability and denial of deep issues.
I have posted entries on my weblog, http://itisthequestion.blogspot.com about some of the horrific crimes that have been committed over the last 6 months.
But I fundamentally disagree with your intentions. I love this country. I question whether you do.
I continue to witness the turnaround of this country from the one I grew up in.
In the early nineties, I together with many, wondered if this country would descend into civil war. I even lost friends to the terrorist attacks occurring at the time.
I chose to stay and contribute to our country’s rebirth and have watched as the success of its turnaround has gathered pace. Few could have imagined the miracle. As we stood in the queue to vote in the referendum to give transformation our “yes”. As we queued with millions voting for the first time. As we watched one of world’s greatest sons forgive his captors and wear the rugby jersey of a white captain at the 1995 world cup. As we watched Joshua Thugwane win gold at the Olympics. As we have watched our swimmers rule the world. And as our economy has leapt to life growing at 6%.
I have watched people return to South Africa after having emigrated to other countries. I have employed these people and encouraged others to return, always honestly providing an assessment of the dangers and the benefits of such a move.
I have also encouraged family and friends who have left because of crime. I have seen the effects of crime on a family’s psychology first hand as my cousin killed an intruder in his bedroom. I fully understood his emigration choice as he sought a new life where his family would feel safe again.
I also fully realise that should I one day be a victim of violent crime, I might also feel sufficiently threatened that I might seek the safety of foreign shores.
I encounter people daily on the internet who have left South Africa and feel bitter about having had to do so. I meet many more who are even more bitter that whilst they might wish to leave they are unable to do so.
But I also see those who have been victims of crime who have managed to move on and remain committed to this country. I hope that I manage to avoid crime, but should I not, I hope that I might exhibit their bravery.
This country will survive and prosper because of bravery, commitment and optimism. Of course honesty, accountability and consequence will also be crucial to that success.
But our country also requires much to be built. We require a moral regeneration. It will be built on education. Education will require wealth and wealth will require jobs.
This represents massive construction. More than that, a constructive spirit.
And that is what worries me about your project. It is by objective destructive. You wish to turn people away from South Africa. You might justify this as your means of attracting the government’s attention through external pressure. But as considerable as your effort is, I believe you have chosen an easy path. For it is always easier to be destructive than play a constructive role.
Our country needs constructive contributions. Indeed perhaps because of the lack thereof, our problems are that much greater today.
There are many ways to play a constructive role. From merely contributing productively to our economy, to volunteering some small contribution to our police force.
In fact almost any contribution will be less than that of the lives that many of our policemen and women have given so tragically in defence of our safety. Some of those stories can also be found on my weblog.
I have wondered what other means you have attempted to engage the problem before your current effort? And I wonder if your considerable effort might not find a better role?
Regards
ItIsTheQuestion
References:
Anti-crime campaign may scare 2010 visitors
SA crime website ‘must disgust’
IMC concerned about ‘negative’ crime website
New anti-crimeexpo sites / posts:
Hoox
The Unbroken Barometer
http://www.realsouthafrica.co.za
Crime Site Gets A Rival – IoL
JoBlog
July 18th, 2006 at 12:30 am
I’m not an economist, but I always thought that the equation ran something like this:-
if less than , then the country is in a recession.
Did I get that wrong somewhere?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Interesting that Ex SA thinks that you have to have lived in a first world country like Austalia before “can actually understand” – Fortunately I have lived in Aus – for just over a year – wouldn’t live there if they paid me (well maybe if it was a huge amount…..)Still would rather be here.
July 21st, 2006 at 11:11 am
“Call to sabotage”
http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=271&fArticleId=3327822
“Sabotaged”
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1971337,00.html
Does that make Nils Flaatten an accomplice, or is crime just part of our culture? Hacking is also a crime btw.
July 21st, 2006 at 2:14 pm
Just to inform you that I’ve been threatened with some kind of retaliation against me for exposing that the pics on the http://www.crimexposouthafrica.co.za were not sent in by murder victims families but were taken from http://www.rotten.com. The fraudulent use was confirmed and was tracked to the racist Jan Lamprecht’s site http://www.africancrisis.org who supplied them.
These are the kind of people who set up the crimexposouthafrica.co.za and the southafricaiscrap blog.
If you fail to bow to their underhanded tactics and disagree with them you will be threatened.
The words from the anonymous blog directed at me says (among other things),
“…This is so incredibly juvenile, but its the kind of response people like you evoke. it’s just so frustrating to deal with brainwashed nincompoops like you. This is probably gonna get me flamed, but I actually hope that something bad happens to you, just to see all your smug superiority evaporate when some “animal” works his way with you and you try to plead with him, lets see you reason with the unreasonable…”
And further on, “I believe Jan Lamprecht & Friends are at this moment and time tracing you mate….”
Who’s the criminal now?
July 24th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
[...] http://www.joblog.co.za/2006/07/how-to-keep-tourists-out-of-the-country [...]
July 24th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
It’s rather ironic to see how many of you South Africans will crucify the one person who takes a firm stand against crime in South Africa. Neil Watson, in most of your views is doing the wrong thing, but has at least come up with an idea to do something about crime in South Africa. But funnily enough, I don’t see a lot of other anti crime ideas on this blog nor any criticism towards the real culprits behind the soaring crime levels in South Africa, the South African government. They are miserably failing you and all you can do is to criticise each other and people taking a stance. I live in the UK and the police here will jump through hoops to bring criminals who dares to rape, rob or murder to justice. Wake up and smell the coffee, there is no reason why things should be any different in South Africa. You are all paying tax, and on top of that also paying for additional security. What about those of you who pay for a medical fund? What you don’t realise is that you are actually paying tax twice? I’d like to see politicians in the UK get away with the ridiculous amounts of money spent on personal bodyguards, or the massive pay rises the local authorities award themselves. For once, stand together, regardless of race and keep your government on their toes, for it is them who are failing you, not a desperate Neil Watson.
July 24th, 2006 at 7:43 pm
Phil, Neil isn’t doing anything either. He’s just a greedy attention seeker. If he was serious about his efforts, he would actually do or suggest something to do something about the crime, rather than put up a sensation seeking website. I’m sure that not a single person here advocates crime, but his methods won’t achieve anything other than create more unemployment and crime.
Why doesn’t he put his money where his web site is? Donate some money to anti crime programs or do anything, ANYTHING AT ALL. Because just publishing a bunch of fake pictures on a web site doesn’t achieve one d@mn thing. He doesn’t give two hoots about the country. He just cares about his fame (infamy?) and pocket.
Sean
July 25th, 2006 at 12:49 am
Sean, thanks for your comment and I totally understand what you mean by that. But it seems on this blog that everyone just sadly miss the fact that it is your government’s responsibility to protect it’s citizens from crime. You have the right to be safe and you have the right to make a good living by choice. I said in my previous comment that no one here comes up with any anti crime ideas, but I personally think a good place to start would be to put some pressure on your own government and not on each other. Your government holds the key to your safety, they’ve got the resources through your tax money, you’ve elected them, now make them work for you.
July 25th, 2006 at 9:11 am
Don,
This will sound like I’m regurtitating all that has been said above. The website should be designed to have a positive impact by forcing the government to react. This would include more police, quicker response, harsher punsihment. Instead the site has got the world’s media in a tizz. We all agree that crime will never disappear, but our crime levels are much higher than most of the world.
By posting fake photos, etc he undermines the purpose of the site. He loses credibility and he impacts on tourism. The site is NOT supposed to reduce tourism, it is supposed to create a good environment for it. However, our government will never react, they never do. We will be forced to have this site as a symbol of yet another failure of our government. I don’t like to discuss politics, but it is reality.
It would be great if he could have a positive effect, but he’d have more luck donning a bat suit and a black cape.
Eventually people will lose interest in the site after the sensationalism is out of the way.
August 5th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
I believe it would be irresponsible NOT to support CrimExpo…. crime has got to decrease to a more ‘acceptable’ level. We have to take action. This cannot continue. Right now Neil is the only one offering any kind of real solution.
The intention of the CEX site is to highlight government’s lack of response. The problem is not that the website is harming tourism but rather that CRIME is doing the damage.
I have to wonder with all the people purporting a “positive and constructive” approach… like what? We would need resources the size of which can only be mobilized by government. The starfish theory is not going to help here.
I commend Neil for at least doing something.
Be safe
Lee
August 16th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Thanks, I was looking for the crime expo url… found it here !!!!
August 18th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
HI! I also started a website against Watson. http://WWW.TRUECRIMEXPO.CO.ZA I’m only 17 years old, but I believe that my site is convincing enough and shows that Watson’s site will eventually do more harm than good… I also think that it’s totally irresponsible to try and damage the tourism industry. If you look at the facts, you’ll see that very little tourists are victims of crime in SA. Watson is also unrealistic. He says he’ll only stop with his campaign when the murder rate drop by 75%. Will we accomplish that in the next 10 years? I doubt it. So are we going to tell people not to invest in SA for 10+ years? It’ll only lead to more poverty and more crime. I don’t see Watson’s site as a solution.
September 16th, 2006 at 10:01 am
Hi,
I also agree that it is wrong to try and prevent tourists from visiting. The crimeexposouthafrica website isn’t all bad though. See my perspective at http://bloodsuckinginsects.blogspot.com/2006/09/crimeexposouthafrica.html.
Keep up the good work.
Dave
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:17 pm
If this Dude’s not doing this for personal enrichment then why would he ask for money for SMSes.
This is not my perpective, its common knowledge OR i think its anti-ANC racist right wing crap and YES; the most ANC minister are incompetent than students without matric but Watson’s site has never been reported OR known for its objectivity…
How can you take away REVENUE that can create more jobs and taking people off the streets???
That is a wankiest idea ever, as the Govt can re-instate the Death Penalty Or Whatever, will he help Attract tourists again??
What does he do with the proceeds he earns from Advertising and these SMS premiums??
He’s busy being a millionaire and i think now he’s proparbly richer than the SA president!!
He has no interests for SA and he’s getting the money so he’d emmigrate as Charles told him to.
October 5th, 2006 at 11:46 am
I do not agree to Neil’s methods. I do agree that there is no crime free ANYWHERE, but South Africa is out of hand. If you study statistics, and travel around the place alot, like I do, you can experience what “survival” feels like. I personally witness road rage once a week, I see cars next to roads where kids throw bricks through windscreens and run off. I see puppies hung up with wire all along the highways, cows crossing the roads, people being shot in their cars. If you keep persisting that NOTHING is wrong in SA, you have a serious denial problem. The mindless brainwashing happening in the squatter camps, the speeches that teach them that stealing from whites is ok, the chanting about you know what… Its retarded, but its a fact. You can keep living in denial. I love SA, and Ill stay here and do what I can. As for CrimeExpo, personally that site is biased in my opinion, I don’t go there.
November 11th, 2006 at 6:33 am
Neil Watson has been caught out! He’s in fact Juan Uys, president of the Gay and Lesbian Association. The police also seized child pornography at his premises in 1999 and he owned a massage parlor. It’s a true victory for South Africans that Neil Watson has been eliminated. How many South Africans believe in a destructive website based on sensation, lies and even blatant racism?
Visit
1. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/exposed.JPG
2. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/exposed1.JPG
3. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/exposed2.JPG
for articles that appeared in the newspapers…
Regards,
Malan
http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za
November 11th, 2006 at 9:26 am
I just want to confirm that I agree that South Africa’s crime rate is totally unacceptable and must be exposed but it must been done in a balanced way – not making use of lies etc.
I have much sympathy for those Crime Expo contributors who were victims of violent crime and who find in Crime Expo SA an ear to whom they can express their pain. You are welcome to submit your stories to be posted in a new section on my website to be created soon.
PS. I see Watson denies the ownership of the child porn and he wasn’t found guilty for that. So sorry, it was unnecessary to mention that incident although the police did seize it at his premises.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:41 am
New controversy hits embattled crime website
By Nathan Blows
Claims of ’foul’ after big expose into site aimed at foreigners
The controversial website highlighting crime in South Africa has run into a new storm of controversy.
The international coordinator of the site has cried foul and issued legal letters after a string of damaging claims.
It was claimed in a weekend newspaper expose that the website’s coordinator could be linked to an equally controversial gay and lesbian organization; that the previous incarnation of the site had not been hacked as claimed but that the website had not paid its former internet service provider and that the owner of the website had paid someone to hack a rival website.
The allegations unleashed a barrage of counter-claims and legal summonses.
Since its inception this crime website, named crimexposesouthafrica, has been haunted by allegations of rightwing links, racism and defamation.
The website’s backers responded with a counter statement from all those accused and summons letters to various newspapers, media groups and individuals have been issued.
The chief whistle-blower on the site’s activities was an employee who was removed from the site after being accused of having extreme right wing sympathies. It was also claimed that she had, on several occasions, been requested to stop publishing extremist posts.
She also stands accused of having received funds on behalf of the website and being responsible for deleting information from the website.
Now some commentators believe that the latest drama may be the death knell for the website. Many have had reservations about the website and its stated aims to force the government to reduce crime by highlighting the South African crime situation to the rest of the world.
It certainly grabbed international attention, but it has been criticized for not doing anything to help reduce crime.
When reduced to its base level the site is nothing more than a collection of crime stories, copied and pasted from various online news sources. Where this site differs from the normal news sources is that it only concentrates on crime.
One post to the site reads: “Africa, largely due to the ignorance, stupidity and skewed mindset of the African, has become a global joke, failed experiment; a symbol of no hope on the most backward species of human this planet has ever known, a genus of person that apart from a few interesting jazz lyrics and sports titles, has contributed little else of value to mankind. It clearly shows that trying to uplift these people with programs such as affirmative action and ’be nice to The African’ is futile; it’s all effort, money pi**ed against the wallâ€.
“Don’t worry Raymond Ackerman; if they could get to one of your fat cats, then chances are they can get to you. What tune will you sing then my money grabbing friend?†– After a Pick and Pay staff member had been killed.
“I love this!!!!!! I love it when the denialists get shafted… I wish this would happen to Raymond, FW and a few newspaper editors I can think of.†– Referring to Nadine Gordimer being robbed.
“I was sure that given time, Pieter Boshoff (aka Riaan aka ID10t) would hang himself.†– Speaking of Pieter Boshoff from a rival website.
Another post: “Blacks and coloureds are the biggest bums alive…â€
The above are just some of the choice comments users post on the site. Is it any wonder that a backlash would be imminent? A website that allows these types of comments can hardly turn around and cry “Defamation!†nor can they claim some kind of moral high ground in this debate.
A valiant attempt to delete these comments has been made but as a result of the website’s success, you can still view these and other comments using Google cached pages. Screen shots of theses also come in handy.
It appears that the website’s popularity may also be its chief downfall. Those behind the website are also very adept at posting the personal information of those who disagree with their stance on the World Wide Web. When I last checked, that was an illegal practice.
These websites will eventually fail. Why?
Anyone who has read “With Criminal Intent – The Changing Face Of Crime In South Africa†(Ampersand Press) by Rob Marsh and Crime in South Africa: A Country and Cities Profile by Martin Schönteich & Antoinette Louw (Institute for Security Studies) will know that the serious and escalating crime problem in South Africa is a multi-headed Hydra – cut off one head and two, three or four more grow in its place.
There are more than 12 causes for crime in South Africa and not one of the crime websites addresses those causes. As a result, they are doomed to fail. They have, however, got one thing right. The government needs to step in, equip the police, tighten up current crime laws and address all the causes of crime. Long term, sustainable solutions need to be found.
If not, we may yet become the next Zimbabwe that many are predicting.
http://www.reporter.co.za/newszone/article.aspx?ID=RP21A320976
November 22nd, 2006 at 2:06 pm
I agree that crime in South Africa is a serious problem. But as I said before, this idiot was after money and nothing more. And I for one am EXTREMELY glad that this site has been shut down. Now let’s hope that our beautiful country gets an influx of tourists so that we can use some of their money to make things better.
Sean
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:30 pm
One way of addressing crime may be to take governmnet Ministers to Court to stop their salaries, because of non-performance. Then you will see how quick they get off their fat backsides and start doing something.
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:32 am
Correction: My draft went through by mistake. Should read: One way of addressing crime may be to take government ministers to Court to stop their salaries, because of non-performance. Then we will see how quick they get off their backsides and start doing something.
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:17 pm
All your wonderful pie in the sky solutions is just useless blabber.Neil Watson is on the right track-hit the government where it hurts most-i.e.in their corrupt pockets.How stupid and immoral can one get?You are saying that tourist money will save us from crime?The more money the money pigs get the fatter and more happy they are!!Stop the tourists save their lives and possesions.South Africa is radically more criminal than other countries -dont say “crime is everywhere”,what a daft statement!!Did the ANC get into power through international economic sanctions??Shows you what can be done ,not so??Stop crime first -then invite your tourists!All you critics of crimeexposouthafrica need a few lessons in human nature!!You are way too “level headed”-Wake up man!!
November 24th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
“Neil Watson is on the right track-hit the government where it hurts most-i.e.in their corrupt pockets.How stupid and immoral can one get?”
Is defrauding people on the right track? Racism? Lies? Those “on the right” enough for you?
Somehow that seems “stupid and immoral” don’t you think?
April 9th, 2007 at 9:19 am
“Africa, largely due to the ignorance, stupidity and skewed mindset of the African, has become a global joke, failed experiment; a symbol of no hope on the most backward species of human this planet has ever known, a genus of person that apart from a few interesting jazz lyrics and sports titles, has contributed little else of value to mankind. It clearly shows that trying to uplift these people with programs such as affirmative action and ‘be nice to The African’ is futile; it’s all effort, money pissed against the wall.â€
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